Foxy Green Foxbody Build

I believe I'm looking at piston erosion and little aluminum marbles because it's lean or too much total timing.

Something isn't right
 
I have to stop fuckin with the vacuum advance. Yall might have said so earlier, but I've learned for myself why you can't have everything you want in a street car.

I think the cam might be pissing torque out of the exhaust at low rpm, 1200 to 2000, making it not streetable by creating more load on the engine, essentially lugging it to get out of its own way with the 3.73 rear gear. At light throttle and low rpm, the load is high enough the engine can't make enough torque, but low enough the vacuum advance is still pushing timing up into the mid to high 30s.

Since I'm having to "cruise" above 2000 rpm, the mechanical timing is nearly all in. Before you say, change the springs... these are the slowest/heaviest springs I could put in. Because of the high initial timing, and low mechanical bushing limit (13 degrees) the ramp is very quick. All in by 2500 or just under that.

It's possible my timing is damn near 40 degrees at light throttle in the 2000rpm range, and with the manual transmission there's no converter to slip and make the engines life easier.

This is all speculation on my part. But it sure sounds like it makes sense. I would ask AI but I've hit the pay wall, and fuck that.

I think the solution is drop base timing back to 16 degrees, keep my 13 degree bushing in there so the mechanical limit is 29 degrees. Take vacuum advance out of the equation and see what the car does.
 
I also think it's still sucking oil into the chambers through the rocker studs if I haven't mentioned that already
 
How many months do you suppose it takes for the rings to seat?
 
Patriot Racer said:
I’m pretty sure the engine needs cylinder pressure for rings to seat. Not tons of idle time and putting around.
Click to expand...

This discussion has been had by people smarter than me.

Everyone has the "I've done this with zero issues for 30 years".

Half say it's broken in at idle. Half say it isn't. I'm done having the discussion because it seems no one fucking knows.

I don't know wtf is in there, but i know I don't have gas ported rings.
 
No one wants to get into an internet conversation around here, and that's fine, but people do shit differently.

When building my engine I posted publicly, and privately, asking how to break the engine in and get rings to seat.

"They seat immediately"
"You'll wash the cylinders"
"Full throttle pulls and decel in gear within first 50 miles"

Anyone else want to throw their hat in the ring?? Because I'm getting tired of no one saying a fucking thing until something goes wrong then its a festival of "oh I wouldn't have done that" experts
 
Honest question... Does the ring manufacturer give instructions? I assume they would specify the cylinder wall hone and break in procedure.
I'd follow what they say.

(Maybe apples to oranges, but I learned in school that people ruin paint jobs because they don't read what's written on the can)
 
89 Fox 427 said:
No one wants to get into an internet conversation around here, and that's fine, but people do shit differently.

When building my engine I posted publicly, and privately, asking how to break the engine in and get rings to seat.

"They seat immediately"
"You'll wash the cylinders"
"Full throttle pulls and decel in gear within first 50 miles"

Anyone else want to throw their hat in the ring?? Because I'm getting tired of no one saying a fucking thing until something goes wrong then its a festival of "oh I wouldn't have done that" experts
Click to expand...
I’ve mentioned this before. For the past 15+ years and at least 4 engines during that time, (3) different builders told me to just go out there and beat on it. They all knew my intentions were to hit the track. Not an issue with any of them seating rings.

Are we sure that the valve stem seals are good to go? Leak down test?
 
89 Fox 427 said:
No one wants to get into an internet conversation around here, and that's fine, but people do shit differently.

When building my engine I posted publicly, and privately, asking how to break the engine in and get rings to seat.

"They seat immediately"
"You'll wash the cylinders"
"Full throttle pulls and decel in gear within first 50 miles"

Anyone else want to throw their hat in the ring?? Because I'm getting tired of no one saying a fucking thing until something goes wrong then its a festival of "oh I wouldn't have done that" experts
Click to expand...

Sure

Cyl pressure is what seats the rings. On the dyno, a new engine is run for 20 minutes or so under light load with an occasional medium throttle whack.

No dyno you can’t run it against the brake, so you fire it with a high idle & whack the throttle hard & quick about 50 times in 15 minutes.

Now that worked for a hunnert years & is still what I would do today.

With the advent of better rings & cyl wall finishes & more ADVERTISING, different approaches have developed that may or may not be bullshit but the fact remains that no matter what, that old school way will work for dam near any engine built today.

When you left that cap off of the baseplate of the carb it was way lean. Couple that with some high timing & you have a recipe for disaster.


Yes you can have everything in a street car. It just has to be snuck up on from a safe base that you can return to at anytime.

It takes a LOT of experience to hit one out of the park right off the bat & sometimes we can get it pretty close & then it takes a lot of experience to know what to throw at it next.

You don’t have that experience (not knocking you at all) but you’re learning the hard way & it sucks.

I had the pleasure of learning from just a couple of old guys that held national records & had been there & done that.
Consequently I ran 11.teens in my little ChevyII at 17 yrs old(1975) that I drove to work every day on pump gas, mufflers & street tires. We called it the MONEY TAKER cuz I won around 20k in 1 year on the street. (Pay no attention IRS, I’m lying to make me look good)

They taught me some things but more importantly that taught me how to think.

I can’t imagine trying to sort through the vast amount of bullshit available today.
 
Patriot Racer said:
I’ve mentioned this before. For the past 15+ years and at least 4 engines during that time, (3) different builders told me to just go out there and beat on it. They all knew my intentions were to hit the track. Not an issue with any of them seating rings.

Are we sure that the valve stem seals are good to go? Leak down test?
Click to expand...

I have no clue. I have compression tester gauge is that what I need?
 
WillisonTfosdik said:
Sure

Cyl pressure is what seats the rings. On the dyno, a new engine is run for 20 minutes or so under light load with an occasional medium throttle whack.

No dyno you can’t run it against the brake, so you fire it with a high idle & whack the throttle hard & quick about 50 times in 15 minutes.

Now that worked for a hunnert years & is still what I would do today.

With the advent of better rings & cyl wall finishes & more ADVERTISING, different approaches have developed that may or may not be bullshit but the fact remains that no matter what, that old school way will work for dam near any engine built today.

When you left that cap off of the baseplate of the carb it was way lean. Couple that with some high timing & you have a recipe for disaster.


Yes you can have everything in a street car. It just has to be snuck up on from a safe base that you can return to at anytime.

It takes a LOT of experience to hit one out of the park right off the bat & sometimes we can get it pretty close & then it takes a lot of experience to know what to throw at it next.

You don’t have that experience (not knocking you at all) but you’re learning the hard way & it sucks.

I had the pleasure of learning from just a couple of old guys that held national records & had been there & done that.
Consequently I ran 11.teens in my little ChevyII at 17 yrs old(1975) that I drove to work every day on pump gas, mufflers & street tires. We called it the MONEY TAKER cuz I won around 20k in 1 year on the street. (Pay no attention IRS, I’m lying to make me look good)

They taught me some things but more importantly that taught me how to think.

I can’t imagine trying to sort through the vast amount of bullshit available today.
Click to expand...

The forums have taught me a lot. One of the most important things it has taught me is how full of shit some information can be, unintentionally.

"I never had an issue and that's how I've always done it" - says the guy that rebuilds an old LS with tolerances bigger than miss candy at the tiddy bar, who sells the car 4 months after fixing it for profit and has no idea the guy after him had problem after problem.

Take it with a grain of salt is the most paramount piece of advice, because people sound like experts but can (unintentionally) be full of shit.
 
As to break in ! thats why I asked type of ring and the grit of the hone used has alot in play in how the rings break in .
I feel you have the timing thing figured out and if anything run it rich where the plugs run brown so you know your safe and enjoy the car but like any hot rods tinker play tinker play and you will find the sweet spot
 
89 Fox 427 said:
I have no clue. I have compression tester gauge is that what I need?
Click to expand...
No you need a leak down tester

If you don’t know, it uses available pressure set at 100%. Whatever leaks out from the other side of the tester is represented in a pressure. The difference between the 2 is “leak down %”

It also will tell you where the leakage is at.
 
89 Fox 427 said:
The forums have taught me a lot. One of the most important things it has taught me is how full of shit some information can be, unintentionally.

"I never had an issue and that's how I've always done it" - says the guy that rebuilds an old LS with tolerances bigger than miss candy at the tiddy bar, who sells the car 4 months after fixing it for profit and has no idea the guy after him had problem after problem.

Take it with a grain of salt is the most paramount piece of advice, because people sound like experts but can (unintentionally) be full of shit.
Click to expand...

If I were you in todays world I’d approach things like this & Im gonna use an example that I kinda feel bad about.

When I mentioned the dial back timing light freaking out you hadda know that I was telling the truth from experience. Been there.
I almost included “unless technology has overcome that” but I ain’t gonna do all the thinking & research for you. I want you to think of that & do your own research so you learn how to think.
 
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I put straight 30 in a fresh engine. Start it up, run it at high idle, 2000 rpm till it gets hot, 180*, then shut it off and walk away until it is room temp, then do it again. I do this three times. Change the oil, put Mobil 1 in it, cut that oil filter open and make sure there is nothing in it. Go to the track, let the beating commence! When it's actually in a street car I will drive it around and beat on it.
 
WillisonTfosdik said:
If I were you in todays world I’d approach things like this & Im gonna use an example that I kinda feel bad about.

When I mentioned the dial back timing light freaking out you hadda know that I was telling the truth from experience. Been there.
I almost included “unless technology has overcome that” but I ain’t gonna do all the thinking & research for you. I want you to think of that & do your own research so you learn how to think.
Click to expand...

Well of course I looked into it and most of the internet said the same as you so i bought a $25 timing light.. though it showed the same as the other I still think it was worth the test
 
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