Foxy Green Foxbody Build

There's nothing wrong with locked timing i ran a street car like that years ago. You just won't get any part throttle mpg benefits that a better timing curve can achieve

If it's not a daily driver and more race orientated it works fine
With a 4 speed and 4.10's I'm cruising at 3000 rpm anyway.
Fox has OD so different story.
I tried curves, custom bushings, noticed absolutely nothing. However, an initial of 10° won't even start, lol.
Maybe guys that run 45° advance see more of a gain, idk.
 
I'll tell you one thing I'm not grasping. If you have 16* at 800rpm, 32 degrees at 3000 rpm, and same 32* at 7000rpm, seems like it makes way more sense to get into laptop tuning to make it efficient everywhere inbetween 3 to 7k to really get the best numbers out of a run.
Now ya just need a box that'll let you do that for each gear also 😉
 
There's nothing wrong with locked timing i ran a street car like that years ago. You just won't get any part throttle mpg benefits that a better timing curve can achieve

If it's not a daily driver and more race orientated it works fine
Was steadier on the timing light also
 
I'll tell you one thing I'm not grasping. If you have 16* at 800rpm, 32 degrees at 3000 rpm, and same 32* at 7000rpm, seems like it makes way more sense to get into laptop tuning to make it efficient everywhere inbetween 3 to 7k to really get the best numbers out of a run.
My stuff is race only , so I want all my timing in at 2500.( My car idles at 2000) I leave the line at 3500 so my timing is full in. I am not going to tell you what is best for the street and occasional track car.
The reason I said in my other post not to lock the timing out , I have seen my share of broken starters and or flexplate teeth.
I have the MSD 18* bushing in and people have asked me " how to you make your car start so easy" I run 40* total but my timing is set at 22*
I put the balancer at 22* drop distributor on facing #1 thermal and it ends up at 40* total
 
I'll tell you one thing I'm not grasping. If you have 16* at 800rpm, 32 degrees at 3000 rpm, and same 32* at 7000rpm, seems like it makes way more sense to get into laptop tuning to make it efficient everywhere inbetween 3 to 7k to really get the best numbers out of a run.

I'd like to see what @itey says about your timing curve.
IIRC he has a lot of experience with the SBF and I believe he says timing shouldn't be all in until high RPM on those motors.
I hope he chimes in, it's something I just thought was interesting at the times.
 
I

have seen my fair share of busted starters and teeth on flexplates even with the start retard device
Understood.
Old cam was 268/276 @ .050 and 12.8:1 on pump 94 with 220psi cranking pressure. Started as soon as you hit the key and locked at 31°.
But on a smaller cam and less overlap I get what yer sayin 👍
 
I'd like to see what @itey says about your timing curve.
IIRC he has a lot of experience with the SBF and I believe he says timing shouldn't be all in until high RPM on those motors.
I hope he chimes in, it's something I just thought was interesting at the times.

I can tell you exactly what he wants.

18 initial
start 1200 RPM
22 at 2000,
24 at 3000,
26 at 4500 and
28 at 5000.
Vacuum advance 0 deg 8" Hg, start or 1 deg 9" Hg and total 12 deg 16" Hg.
 
try feeding her chocolates....
 
I'd like to see what @itey says about your timing curve.
IIRC he has a lot of experience with the SBF and I believe he says timing shouldn't be all in until high RPM on those motors.
I hope he chimes in, it's something I just thought was interesting at the times.
In bracket racing none of this matters because all you want is the car to repeat the number, but if you are racing in a rules limited class where everybody is using the same small carburetor it is a significant advantage, but beware of triggering the tech inspector who will go crazy trying to find where you are cheating air into the engine. This can actually be humorous.

Every engine is different and has its own appetite for spark timing, but nearly every NA engine needs less advance at peak torque than at peak HP, so runs best with an advance curve adding timing through the power band RPM range.

Several times I have quoted the Ford "Muscle Parts" advice for the Boss 302 as an example of an advance curve which has a very profound effect in eliminating the myth "ports are too big to make good low end torque" which is the result of when an "all in @ 2500" curve is set for best power at 7000 RPM it is about 7 degrees too much advance for best power at 3000, and this is so even if the fuel is high enough octane it doesn't knock with too much advance for best torque output.

I have experienced newer cylinder heads, stuff designed (and zhyneze copied) in the last 10 years or so, with "fast burn" chambers that show a distinct need for a curve that adds timing after the torque peak. This has been the case on both engine and chassis dyno and the butt dyno. (smart phone accelerometer, get the app to measure HP with your phone)

With points, locked or "all in early", holds the same timing as RPM climbs, but ironically, an analog electronic ignition, induction or CD, retards as RPM climbs, usually about one degree per 1000 RPM.

The retard is because of the slew rate of multiple electrical components and transistor switching delay, which causes the timing to retard as RPM climbs. The advance mechanism can be arranged to compensate for the slew rate.

Ford advice for the Boss 302 is 30 deg at 2000 with a straight slope to 40 deg at 8000, so that is 1.66 deg per 1000 RPM. Coincidentally, Bill Jenkins (what would he know? and the Ford engineers are nuts too?) advised 1.5 deg per 1000 for the SBC, like the engines he built for drag racing and circle track.

I have been doing curves like this for nearly all engines for over 50 years and a guranfawkingteee it is worth the time if you can use a distributor machine, particularly if the engine is a little or a lot restricted in the carburetor or intake system so it has rising intake vacuum with RPM increase.

Unfortunately, this is not easy to do with a MSD distributor. The GM HEI and Ford Motorcraft distributors are the easiest, the Ford back in the '70s when the springs were available from Ford and the part numbers were the same as used in '65-'66 Galaxie 390 300 HP engines, so they were usually in the bone pile. Nowadays I get springs from the hardware store and cut them to the number of coils required for the necessary spring rate.
 
What a pile of questions i have..

What does a distributor machine do?

Trying to wrap my brain around your whole message, you'd like to see 12 degrees advance at 16"hg vacuum. Based on my spring/bushing combo on the turd I have (all in 34* by 3000) it would roughly equate to:

At 2000 rpm cruise with 20" vacuum
16 initial
10 centrifugal
10 vacuum (the max my canister will advance)

Putting me at 36 degrees, but you mentioned a 393 you messed with wanted 22 at 2000.

Am I screwing up the interpretation?
 
What does a distributor machine do?
It's a machine that spins the distributor and lights up when it fires and shows advance when RPM's go up. It varies in RPM and can be used to setup the distributor without you leaning over the fender and working with a loud hot car. Mine spins up tp 5,000 RPM, I believe Iteys will go to 8,000
 
What a pile of questions i have..

What does a distributor machine do?

Trying to wrap my brain around your whole message, you'd like to see 12 degrees advance at 16"hg vacuum. Based on my spring/bushing combo on the turd I have (all in 34* by 3000) it would roughly equate to:

At 2000 rpm cruise with 20" vacuum
16 initial
10 centrifugal
10 vacuum (the max my canister will advance)

Putting me at 36 degrees, but you mentioned a 393 you messed with wanted 22 at 2000.

Am I screwing up the interpretation?
Where is your vacuum source?
Will it fall off at WOT?
 
Where is your vacuum source?
Will it fall off at WOT?
Manifold on the carb.
It should, but haven't got it wide open yet. Need to get a camera on the gauges because there's just so much going on right now I'm overwhelmed

I can use ported but would rather use manifold for its idle benefits if my canister would even open at that low of idle (I don't believe it will currently)
 
It is likely that old school dist. specs are in dist degrees and rpm simply because of dist machines. That is, the machine spins and measures the RPM and advance of the dist at it's actual RPM which of course is half of engine/ crank RPM

You need to map mechanical advance FIRST without vacuum. It is desirable to map vacuum by itself which means you need a vaccuum source, which can be one of those hand squeeze pumps, if the gauge on it is deemed accurate.

One way to do that on the car is to bring the engine up to a fairly stable RPM like 16000-1800 and get it stable, then use your vacuum pump to manipulate the advance can and measure change with a light

There is an age old argument about how vacuum advance should be connected, IE 'full manifold' vacuum or timed/ ported/ venturi vacuum. The two cause entirely different actions, and the curves must be different for each system. Ported vacuum, I guess, got popular about the time of emissions controls, as retarded timing at lower/ idle RPM helps clean up an engine
 
Back
Top