Foxy Green Foxbody Build

WillisonTfosdik said:
Here’s a coupla things that I think you need to know.

Up until about 20 yrs ago there wasn’t the the technology to measure & model & compute the things that are here today.

Engine builders would dream up stuff, make it & test. Usually the results sucked lol

Occasionally something would show some positive results. There was no accepted reasoning as to why it worked but it opened a small crack in the door of progression. More testing may or may not show you why but it was there. More innovation & testing would show trends. More testing. More failures but occasionally a small improvement would arrive.

Very smart men could not prove why but it wasn’t really so important as more failures than successes would litter the discussion & you’d get paralysis by analysis. We just kept moving in a certain direction.

Thousands & thousands of race winning, championship winning, record setting engines were built with maybe 25% of the knowledge thats present today.

What was “secret squirrel “ shit was actually unexplainable but nobody would admit it. EGO & all that showmanship shit. Lol

You have access to todays science & even with all of it, nobody can scientifically prove that one way is better than the other. I think the newer science spent most of its early times trying to figure out why accepted results were what they were, sort of backing into results.

If it was as easy as you seem to expect, there would be one book with all of the answers & everybody would do it exactly the same way but NOPE!

Why do you think that all of the big hitters are ALWAYS testing testing testing, spending untold time & money to find 3 more HP or another .005.

There is no accepted answer to any of this because there is someone, somewhere hauling ass with damn near everything that the “experts” say is wrong. Instead of trying to figure out why it worked, most will accuse that guy of lying or cheating & dismiss a learning opportunity.

Take this for what it’s worth to you as I’m just trying to help you learn how to learn.
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Thank you for this. Your knowledge and wisdom is something I seek though I don't see you post much until i go fuckin something up 🤣

Analysis paralysis is my middle name. And if I can't discern a "why or why not" I stand in the corner and decide what color to change my park lights to.

When there isn't one right answer my brain shuts off until I get beat with an identical answer from enough people.

Something as simple as "should I tune the carb with":
90 ethanol free
93 pump unleaded
100 "race" unleaded

Took me 2 days to make a decision.

I'm lucky all my underwear is black and I only have one pair of gym shorts or I'd never get out of bed
 
89 Fox 427 said:
When I ask questions, I invite the answers, as long as those answers have a "why" attached to them. I'm here to learn, not be told an answer with no reasoning. That's backyard mechanic regurgitation. You have to learn to separate "this is how I've always done it" with the valid reasons why something does or doesn't work. This might explain to others why they give advice and I ignore it until I research further
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Bluteam said:
Fuck me.

This is all Foxs fault for abandoning us!

My apologies. I'm a little stressed out because my wife took the tub of red vines and locked them in her office and left me with a plate of sticks to snack on. Thank you in advance for your understanding in the matter.



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put some raisins on them
ants on a log .
this is a good snack to me
 
89 Fox 427 said:
When I ask questions, I invite the answers, as long as those answers have a "why" attached to them. I'm here to learn, not be told an answer with no reasoning. That's backyard mechanic regurgitation. You have to learn to separate "this is how I've always done it" with the valid reasons why something does or doesn't work. This might explain to others why they give advice and I ignore it until I research further
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when I tell you something I may or may not be able to tell you why it works , but what I tell you has worked for me for 2000 race passes. I learned from 2 old bracket racers (one still active one has passed away) who probably have 40,000 combined race passes between them . Sure they wanted their stuff to run good , but they were NOT trying to squeeze every HP out of their combos , they shot for consistency and longevity and their win records prove it. If you ask a question and I respond it means I know what I am about to tell you works , I do not give advice if I do not know what I say is not proven to work . Could you listen to another member and get 2 more HP or skin the cat a bit differently ? sure , but what I tell you is no way wrong even if I cant tell you why it works. For example , I can tell you 2 ways to adjust your valves , EOIC and another guy might tell you to use the 90* method , both work , but one way is more accurate and the other way might be .001 off , but unless you want every 1/64 of a HP .001 does not make a bit of difference and is a lot easier to do. When you fired up your car for the first time a year or 2 ago with the help of the ballers you had helping who I am sure can tell you "why certain things work" had to call "Race car Ronny " to get the 90* method that I learned when I was 16 to fire your car up the first time because no one knew how to adjust Ford valves. But little old me who can't tell you why some things work knew that method (I do know why the 90* method works) because I use it on my car . So the point is , don't discount what experienced people might tell you.

I know I said " I and me " a lot but it's not just me , many on here have learned form past racers and some can tell you "why something works" and some are like me who " know what works" but can't tell you why . Some are self taught and can to tell you "why it works" and some self taught can't tell you "why it works"
One thing is for sure , don't dismiss real world proven answers just because someone is not an engineer.
 
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I enjoy reading your posts Fox but I'm really impressed with the tower of oil!
I have only seen that once, but it was beer at a bar!!!

Hello ,Walmart and Mobil One!!! Make towers.
I'd rather buy that than (2) 5 qt Jugs for a 6 qt oil change. It's a vicious circle until you reach the break even point.
They can sell mounting brackets to hang towers for 100% mark up.
I'm also thinking this is newish, if not, I live under a rock, which is fine by me.
😄
 
Running an autometer air fuel gauge and have a bad oxygen sensor. This one was given to me from a friend so I still have one working gauge but my second one is worthless.

Anyways, for anyone wondering. The autometer 2243 oxygen sensor can be replaced by Bosch 17018. The wire length is different but it's half the price.
 
First drive tomorrow. Before it leaves the driveway making a little checklist make sure I don't go fuckin her up.

Start it
Verify timing
Adjust mixture screws
Once warm, set idle if needed, check timing again.
Confirm the off idle stumble is gone
Bring to 2k, 2.5k, 3k, verify timing is doing its thing.
Check temps, oil pressure, volts,
Roll out.

Long row through the gears taking her up to 3k between shifts, engine brake. 2nd gear 1500 to 4k half throttle pull a few times. More engine brake. Do a burnout in front of the police station. All while checking afr and trying not to squirt
 
What afr during a drive gives you the "oh shits" for an initial drive? Keep in mind generally the a/f ratio of a dual plane can greatly vary between cylinders. If I'm seeing 14, it's possible if not likely there's a cylinder in the 15s

Would you say at a glance, less than 11, more than 14 would make you worry, or only if it was full throttle stuff
 
^^On anything other than a stock engine, idle vacuum has little to no relevance to power valve selection. The power valve is on the main circuit and does nothing at idle. Fox mention he has good vac at a slightly high idle which is still well before the main circuit. I think your EFI fuel enrichment table does a similar thing?

has pretty much summed up the AFR's, the only thing I would add is it will probably be happier idling on the rich side ~13.5 ish. From what I understand the reason for that is due to the low vacuum and likely reversion from the camshaft, the fuel/air doesn't mix well and at 14-15 you'll likely get a lean miss.

Don't get too hung up trying to get "perfect" AFR's, as long as it's in the range, give it what it wants.
 
hq308 said:
^^On anything other than a stock engine, idle vacuum has little to no relevance to power valve selection. The power valve is on the main circuit and does nothing at idle. Fox mention he has good vac at a slightly high idle which is still well before the main circuit. I think your EFI fuel enrichment table does a similar thing?

has pretty much summed up the AFR's, the only thing I would add is it will probably be happier idling on the rich side ~13.5 ish. From what I understand the reason for that is due to the low vacuum and likely reversion from the camshaft, the fuel/air doesn't mix well and at 14-15 you'll likely get a lean miss.

Don't get too hung up trying to get "perfect" AFR's, as long as it's in the range, give it what it wants.
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My street car understanding says shoot for 13.5 idle. If you shut it down to go shopping or whatever and come back out, it'll be leaner until you get some air flow. Same when you sit in traffic a/f can creep leaner.

I have smaller jets (3 sizes) just in case but only the 6.5 power valve right now. The local race shop has everything I need if the carb isn't quite right. I don't expect to get much into the secondaries tomorrow
 
hq308 said:
^^On anything other than a stock engine, idle vacuum has little to no relevance to power valve selection. The power valve is on the main circuit and does nothing at idle. Fox mention he has good vac at a slightly high idle which is still well before the main circuit. I think your EFI fuel enrichment table does a similar thing?

has pretty much summed up the AFR's, the only thing I would add is it will probably be happier idling on the rich side ~13.5 ish. From what I understand the reason for that is due to the low vacuum and likely reversion from the camshaft, the fuel/air doesn't mix well and at 14-15 you'll likely get a lean miss.

Don't get too hung up trying to get "perfect" AFR's, as long as it's in the range, give it what it wants.
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This should be stamped on the heads of some people...

It's been decades since they built these things and the last Holley doc I've read still says "PV should be half of idle vacuum".
They may be slightly retarded.

The other thing is that the main jets should be used to set WOT AFR on a street engine.
I actually can't remember if the Holley doc says that, but I don't think I've seen them talking about adjusting the PVCRs...
 
89 Fox 427 said:
My street car understanding says shoot for 13.5 idle. If you shut it down to go shopping or whatever and come back out, it'll be leaner until you get some air flow. Same when you sit in traffic a/f can creep leaner.

I have smaller jets (3 sizes) just in case but only the 6.5 power valve right now. The local race shop has everything I need if the carb isn't quite right. I don't expect to get much into the secondaries tomorrow
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Do you know about adjusting the IFRs?

I'm in the middle of stuff but will be baaaack.
 
89 Fox 427 said:
My street car understanding says shoot for 13.5 idle. If you shut it down to go shopping or whatever and come back out, it'll be leaner until you get some air flow. Same when you sit in traffic a/f can creep leaner.

I have smaller jets (3 sizes) just in case but only the 6.5 power valve right now. The local race shop has everything I need if the carb isn't quite right. I don't expect to get much into the secondaries tomorrow
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Shit man , don’t be afraid to go thru a couple gears WFO
 
Steve439 said:
Do you know about adjusting the IFRs?

I'm in the middle of stuff but will be baaaack.
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I haven't looked into instrument flight rules. Car should be fast, but I don't expect it to fly
 
89 Fox 427 said:
I haven't looked into instrument flight rules. Car should be fast, but I don't expect it to fly
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That Freiburger video was pretty good.
Remember that part where he showed how the idle mixture moves through the carb?
That little orifice at the bottom (hopefully the bottom, that's the good place) is the "idle feed restrictor", which controls how much fuel goes through the idle and transition circuits.
It, and the idle bleed, control the whole show until you're in the jets.

To get to basics, if your mixture screws don't end up in the range of maybe 3/4 to 1 1/2 out from seated you start looking at the IFRs (and maybe bleeds).
 
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