427 SBF

89 Fox 427 said:
I'll keep it simple

If you use promaxx heads, do you change to machined locks, or leave the stamped ones in?

Have your customers had any issues dropping valves with promaxx heads
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The only issue I have ever had with Promaxx heads is that the Cleveland heads don't flow shit ...

Always remember that 98% of engine building is opinion.

So ... call them forged, instead of stamped. If you're really thinking it's an issue, you'll need to change to 10° and machined retainers. It you want to do that. always buy the heads bare and build them from scratch. You are on a limited budget (there's nothing wrong with that) and what you got is more than sufficient for what you told me your goals are.

If you want to go solid roller and above 7,500 rpm, we'll change your program. It's a hydraulic roller, not a Stage 3 Full Race Cam.
 
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Mark O'Neal said:
The only issue I have ever had with Promaxx heads is that the Cleveland heads don't flow shit ...

Always remember that 98% of engine building is opinion.

So ... call them forged, instead of stamped. If you're really thinking it's an issue, you'll need to change to 10° and machined retainers. It you want to do that. always buy the heads bare and build them from scratch. You are on a limited budget )there's nothing wrong with that) and what you got is more than sufficient for what you told me your goals are.

If you want to go solid roller and above 7,500 rpm, we'll change your program. It's a hydraulic roller, not a Stage 3 Full Race Cam.
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Better step up to TI if running the stage 3 purple cam 😆🤣

Why would he need to go to 10° from 7° to use what he has, or did you just mean for more assurance?
 
89 Fox 427 said:
Mark wanted 155 on the seat and just over 400 open. I'm at 145/401 with the locks they came with
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Ok, then if there are no known issues with the parts used in those heads just replace the bad locks with new stuff from them. I always change locks and retainers together so I am never worried about them not working together. You have all new parts so no need to go through all that.
 
BOSS#1540 said:
Ok.
Just trying to learn, thanks again. 👍
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It is my understanding, that if you're going to change retainers and locks, no reason not to go 10 degree.

There's more surface area, less likely to pull through.

Most titanium retainers I've seen run 10 degree.
 
So if he really thinks it's an issue he needs to change to 10° and machined retainers?
New and or matching 7° keepers and retainers aren't good enough is what you're saying ?
 
89 Fox 427 said:
It is my understanding, that if you're going to change retainers and locks, no reason not to go 10 degree.

There's more surface area, less likely to pull through.

Most titanium retainers I've seen run 10 degree.
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Yeah, I understand the advantages of 10°, just the wording makes it seem like if you want better you need 10°.
When half of your issue was the keeper hanging out the bottom.

Really my issue is if I say anything I'm some kind of Canadian, yet he's an arrogant typical American, but I have American friends so I don't want to insult them 😉.

Has anything I've told you been misleading or incorrect?
If so I apologize.
 
BOSS#1540 said:
Yeah, I understand the advantages of 10°, just the wording makes it seem like if you want better you need 10°.
When half of your issue was the keeper hanging out the bottom.

Really my issue is if I say anything I'm some kind of Canadian, yet he's an arrogant typical American, but I have American friends so I don't want to insult them 😉.

Has anything I've told you been misleading or incorrect?
If so I apologize.
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Yea fuck you ya Canadian! It's more than one issue if you ask me
  • Keepers and retainers are different manufacturers. After seeing it in person, slight variations are no good in my eyes
  • Hanging out the bottom seems more likely to pull through
  • The new locks changed the installed height
  • Retainers are more money, and I could have just bought bare heads
Sure there are solutions, and now knowing how easy it is to pull seals, add shims, and check installed height I wouldn't be scared to do it.

I'll be putting the forged locks back in, checking install height, and sending it!

I don't know if you've mislead me or not. I'm just learning a fuck load, and overreacting every chance I get.
 
Add a torn pan gasket to the list.

And no, in not just putting silicone on it. Summit is sending another.

 
89 Fox 427 said:
Yea fuck you ya Canadian! It's more than one issue if you ask me
  • Keepers and retainers are different manufacturers. After seeing it in person, slight variations are no good in my eyes
  • Hanging out the bottom seems more likely to pull through
  • The new locks changed the installed height
  • Retainers are more money, and I could have just bought bare heads
Sure there are solutions, and now knowing how easy it is to pull seals, add shims, and check installed height I wouldn't be scared to do it.

I'll be putting the forged locks back in, checking install height, and sending it!

I don't know if you've mislead me or not. I'm just learning a fuck load, and overreacting every chance I get
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Yeah, kinda figured that so I stopped suggesting shit. I don't mislead people unless by mistake joking around.

I mixed manufacturers before with no issues but the fit was good.
Yes, pulling seals, especially on new valves shouldn't hurt them, be careful. Some come with a plastic sleeve for installing them over the valve stem, or, again, be careful when re- installing.

Thinest shim on bottom if you use more than one, and under the spring cup.

As far as the "forged" keepers that's why I asked pages ago if it bent easily or was it jammed and beat on or whatever to cause the deformation. Only you know that.
 
Also, installed height and bearing clearances are not to be "close enough" imo. Even using a T square gauge takes some practice and talent to get accurate installed height measurements. I wouldn't rely on a dial indicator myself.
 
BOSS#1540 said:
Also, installed height and bearing clearances are not to be "close enough" imo. Even using a T square gauge takes some practice and talent to get accurate installed height measurements. I wouldn't rely on a dial indicator myself.
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If you ask me, within .015 is good enough for this, considering that's what the shims are.

But I do have a valve spring micrometer.
 
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